we have little to guide as in the solation of the main i questiou" Does flogging on the back produce nhthisis."
They then discuss the question, and in doing so they touch upon a point of great importance. They say
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In regard to air space, we find that in the cells where many prisoners are locked up together for the night. instead at least from 1,000 to 1,200 cubic feet per mon, the allowance is setually only from 482 to 77%, and even bearing in mind the fact of only barred gates separating the cells from the corridors, we do not monsider the air space and ventilation what it should ba.
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The figures they give are figures taken from Dr. Ayres's evidence, and as he explains in a note, they include the average enbic space of all cells, including European and Chinese, but the Committee had to examine, according to the wishes of the Secretary of State, and give an opinion, as to phthisis among Chinese, and accordingly it is Chinese we have to do with. The Commissioners give the air space in the appendix and the result is that instead of having 400 and odd cubic fast. asit would be on the average of the minimum for all the prisoners, it turns out that in some cases the prisoners had only 237, in others 277, in others 285, in others 265, and I find that he fore my arrival here, in November, 1876, ac- cording to a note of Mr. Tomlin's, there was 184 cubic feet of space only in some of the as- sociated cells and 231 in others. That man Leorg Aloi had only 200 enbic feet of air space. Dr. Wells and Dr. O'Brien say it should be 1,000 or 1.200. That is also the opinion of Her Majesty's Government. I must confess that when the breathing space has been limited to that extent
L I think it not at all unlikely the phthisis from which this man suffors may be quite as at- tributable to that fact as to the flogging on the back, perhaps even more so, and in connection with the subject I take the oppor tunity now of mentioning a dispatch of really very great importanes which has not been laid before this Council, but which I shall take the opportunity of printing. It was a dispatch written by Lord Carnarvon to my predecessor, Sir Richard MacDonnell, when be took the prisoners from Stonecutter's Island and put them into the present gaol. Sir Richard, when he did s, spoke of his pre- decessor as being quixotic in hia views! as to the treatment of criminals. Sir Richard thought Chinese criminals should be treated in some peculiar way; accordingly he disapproved of Sir Hercules'schemeand transferred the prisoners to the Gaol at Victoria. He also reported changes. he had effected with respect to the punishment of Chinese prisoners. One of these dispatches was ono enclosing Dr. Murray's report on the health of the colony. Dr. Murray tells us that for the first time--at all events in what may be called the modern history of the colony. Blogging with the cat had been introduced. It appears that when the colony was established in 1841 powers were given to the magistrates both of banging and flogging, but that was spoodily altered, and from the time British law really prevailed here up to 1865 there was no Blog. ging with the ont on the back. Dr. Mur- ray tells us how he thought it a very desirable change to introduco, and Sir Richard MacDon- nell reported also to Lord Carnarvon the good effect it produsert. I think he mentions that at the time Dr. Marray's raport was sent homo, after having twelve mouths' experience of the cat upon the back, out of 570 prisoners in the geol that year 71 had died. I don't know whether it was in any way connected with the introduction of the new mode of punishmont, but the Secretary of State, Lord Carnarvon, inacknowledging the re- caipt of the dispatch about giving up Stonecutter's Island, says I am inclined to think that if you transfer these prisoners to the gaol in the city of Victoria the breathing space for each prisoner in the cells will be too small and I therefore ask for further reports upon that subject." He goes on to say, "I am bound also to inform you at once that I am disposed to think that the changes you have effected in the punishment of the Chinesa are too sovore, and upon that subject I must also ask for further information.” Well, I cannot ascertain that any information as to the air space in the cells was actually sent until I myself. after my first visit to the gaol, at once reported that in
my opinion the cells were too small and the air space too small. But at the Colonial Office they had before them what we call the Blue Book, which is soat home by every Governor every year and which contains amongst other items of information asked for by the Government in a pointed form to be filled up, what is the cubic space in which prisoners are confined. Well. the answer was that it gave the average cubic space of all the cells in the prison in- cluding the corridors, and the result was that it amounted to something like seven or eight hundred cubic feet for each prisoner, bat until I wrote my despatch of 1877 the Government were never aware that Lord Carnarvon's fears ex- pressed in his dispatch to Sir Richard MacDon- nell wore literally correct and that the experiment of forcing too many prisoners into the gaol ought never to have boon tried, that iu point of fact we were forcing into that gaol a number
of prisoners that would never have been tole. rated if Her Majesty's Government had known the facts. Fortunately these gentleman's re- port disposes of that. At the time they made their inquiry four men only had been flogged. What do they find? That two of these men are anfering from phthisis. The Colonial Surgeon certified they were healthy, strong men when they came into the prison. Therefore I say, as to those who are opposing flogging on the back, it is not fair to say that the phthisis from which these mon are suffering has been caused by flogging on the back; it is orobably fair to say it has been caused by that ovil Lord Carourvon foresaw, namely, the evil of overcrowding. We know what it must be in winter, with every door and window closed in these cells, and I myself found on visiting the gaol when the prisoners were in the cells that the atmosphere they were breathing was something horrible. Therefore this report is of valus to the Council apart from the more question of Blogging on the back. Upon that question every man is entitled to form his ewa opinion. A. document was laid before the Committee, which is printed in the appendix, which is of no small interest because it shows this question had attracted the attention of the Chinese Government more than 1,000 years ago, when one of the Emperors, who seems to hare paid very proper attention to the phy- siological effects of flogging on the back, after a long inquiry arrived at the conclusion there ought not to be flogging on the back because it would lead to injury to the viscera. Well, when Her Majesty's Govorurnent learned that the Ordi- nauce prescribed flogging with a rattan, when they learned that the cat was illegal except when or- fered by the Supreme Court, and when they had further learned that throughout the whole of the Empire of China, no matter how severe their f punishments may be, men are never flogged on the back, when they know the laws have been broken, you may be quite certain they will very care- fully consider before they will again allow the laws of the Colour to be broken or all wa practice to be indulged in which leads to the Wall, consequences this report establishes. you will say, the rattan was too lenient an instrument; if you put by the eat make that serera-His Excellency went on to quote the re- port of the Committee as to the use of the ratian, referring particularly to a case in which sorea eansed by it did not heal properly for six months; the rattan was 47 inches long and had an average circumference of two inches. They say
We have examined the "regulation cat," a "naval cat," and the "rattau" used in the gaol, and find there is little difference between the "cats" except the knots. whigh, we were informed, should be three in the gaol cat over hand" on each bait, but had not been used, smaller ones being worked on. Well, then they say----
We are of opinion, that the punishment of flogging the back with the "regulation cat." without any knots, be continued: are being taken by means of a thick causes collar that the neok is not injured and that the loins be protected in a aimilar way so that by these means the blows should fall on the insoles covering the shoulder blades and the intermedia spinal space. That flogging on the book he not inflicted on any person under eighteen years of age. That flog- ging on the brooch with six tails of the cat be the punishment of offonders from the age of thirteen to eighteen, and that the "birch" be used for any offen-
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